Category: Dating and Relationships
I’m currently trying a dating service and this topic comes up in the questions.
Also, during public chat today, the subject was broached.
The two questions are:
One, would you have sex on the first date?
And two, would you respect a person after if you had sex with them on the first date.
Most females, I can’t see the male’s answers, stated no on both questions.
The general time limit seems to be 3 to 5 dates or more before sex is given, or correct to have.
I answered yes on both questions. Here are my reasons.
On the dating site, I don’t consider a first date the one you have for coffee, or a drink to meet each other if that event happens after the exchange of a couple emails and a call to set up the place. That to me is just a meeting to make sure the person is what they claim to be.
The first date comes after you’ve had some conversations over the phone, email, and text and decided to go out.
If while you are out and the chemistry is flowing I see no wrong in ending up in bed if that is where it goes.
I’ve already talked, and know much about the person, what they think, and how they might be. I know I like them, so I’m half way there.
If we’ve not done the coffee, or drink meeting, the only thing I’ve not done it touched them. If I were visual, that part would be covered if they matched the picture.
On the long distance date, I’ve spent much time talking to the person. We’ve exchanged many emails, and shared much, so we know for sure we’re compatible to a point. When we setup the travel plans, the only thing we’ve not done is touched each other if we are blind.
If the other person is visual, because I’m not of course, she has seen me many times on the chat program camera we use.
Once whoever arrives, if they are exactly as they claimed to be, ending up in bed after a short time is acceptable for me. I see no reason to spend a few days with her before we have sex.
On the respect issue, I have a problem with people that say they would not respect a person if they had sex with them on the first date. How can they say that?
They had sex. It wasn’t as if they weren’t involved in the event, so how can they not respect the other person?
How would they feel if the person told them it was nice, but I can’t respect you now because you had sex with me? Why does respect have anything to do with it?
What do you think? I know that most here disagree with me on this topic. Let’s discuss it if you like.
I like your post, Wane.
I've never understood the notion that I could disrespect someone else for what they choose to do provided it's consensual.
As I am one who applies ethics through reason, I find your post well thought-out. Your view seems sound to me.
Sometimes I think the whole thing about losing respect for someone after they've slept with them is one of those tterms that just gets thrown around. society dictates that we say a few pleasantries, whether they're true or not. That's just how the dating game is played. If you just come right out and say everything that's on your mind, without going throu the formalities, you're a pig or a slut or whatever else. I wonder. When a woman says she's afraid that the guy will lose respect for her if she has sex with him right away, is that more of a plea for him to stick around? what I hear in it is, "Please don't let this be a one night stand."
I do disagree, but that's alright. I won't get into who I wouldn't have sex n the first date. What I would like ot touch on is respect. What it comes down to is a question of respecting of the person if they aren't ready. You'd think that would be a no-brainer, but it isn't a foregone conclusion. There are lots of people out there who are, simply put, just out for a "good time". If the two people are mutually ready, then that's between the two of them, and any consequences, good or bad, which follow, are their responsibility. But abiding by another's wishes in respect to their own body, that is incredibly important.
well sure. I'd lose all respect for someone if they rape me. No means no, but what about the woman who wants it just as bad as the guy does, but says she can't because she's afraid the guy won't respect her? I think that's what he's talking about here. correct me if I'm wrong, Wayne.
Anthony I think that's what drives it all re: the fear of abandonment and loss of resources. I think there's a very clear, evolutionary, resources-based reason for female behavior which is usually termed morally superior by society. Calling it what it is takes the moral trump card away, and we men probably can' t appreciate how one would wish to guard such a trump card. After all, masculinity and male sexuality are vilified today and in yesterday's romantic era as base, lewd, piggish, without emotional feeling, and a dozen or more other things. So how could we possibly truly understand the loss of a trump card we never had?
Remy, I don't think Wayne was referring to the crime of rape here. I don't even know if you could convince a criminal mind who wants to rape not to do so. I was such a failure at convincing another's moral change once, and this wasn't even rape or a crime, but an attempt to convince a guy to be a present father to his son. No theory, just an actual breathing, living, baby boy. I guess I can only say I've no confidence in my own ability to alter the perspective of a criminal's mind.
Here’s what I think is meant on the dating site.
One, you have the loss of respect for a woman if she wants sex and gives it on the first date, so many feel they shouldn’t.
Next, for the women that answered they’d not respect the guy, I guess they are meaning he’s just after sex, or a sex hound and they have no respect for a man that wants sex right away.
The part I’m not clear on, is why they say this when they have to be part of the event? Maybe it is them saying, I know I’m not going to be respected, so I’ll protect myself by saying the same back?
My opinion on that is if I’m interested and a woman is not, this is not a problem. I don’t expect sex on the first date, but I’d not turn it down for propriety reasons. That is if she’s in town, and close so we have opportunity to have more dates.
My respect for her or lack of respect has nothing to do with when she gives herself, but her personality.
If she travels to meet me and we’ve been talking about being a couple, and I’m what she wants, she will gain no more respect from me after a few days then she’ll have if she gives me herself in the first hours.
Before she travels, I think she should decide, or stay in a hotel.
The reason for this is the sexual tension will be on. It doesn’t make sense to me to put yourself through that for no reason. She can’t sleep in my bed and we be comfortable. It is silly.
This doesn’t mean I’m going to force her, or anything, but she too will be dealing with the mental and physical tension. I don’t see why we need to do that. Maybe someone will post and shed more light on the question of not respecting a person after you’ve had sex with them on a first date.
I wasn't speaking of something as extreme as rape, but even pressure. All my life, I've noticed, or heard of pressure to have sex. This pressure is probably felt more for women, but admitedly I'm generalizing. That's what I'm saying. Nobody should feel pressures, or should be pressuring one into having sex. If you aren't willing to wait for the person to be ready, you should look for someone or something else. As for masculinity and sexuality being villified, I don't think that's the case at all. I think the idea of what a man is might be up for more debate these days. It was, after all, not too uncommon in the United states for it to be perfectly acceptable to beat their spouse. This wasn't that long ago either. Women are, in many ways, still treated as second class citizens in a patriarchal society. And that includes sexually. Men, in many ways, have it very easy. I think now we're just being challenged to be better than we are. The stereotype of men watching sports, fiddling with cars, drinking beer and being vulgar is still very much the norm, but it doesn't define what it is to be "manly" . I'm getting a bit off here, but hopefully I'm making sense.
OK, so I guess my answers would be:
1. It would depend on the circumstances, the person, how long we'd been talking, and so many other factors there's not a concrete answer to this.
2. Why would I lose respect for the guy if we had sex on the first date? Sure I'd lose respect for him if I figured out something like, he was only out for sex, but tried to get it, or got it, by lying and acting like he wanted a committed relationship. That's not respectable. But just because two people have sex on the first date doesn't mean that's all they're in it for. Even if it is, if they're in agreement about it and there's no deception or pressure, then ok, more power to them. But as long as both are on the same page and it's consensual, why should either lose respect for the other?
I think Anthony is right, a woman saying she hoeps the guy won't lose respect for her is saying, I hope this isn't a one-night stand. I also understand why women on a dating site might say publicly that they wouldn't have sex on the first date. They don't want to appear to be easy pickings for the men on the site who only want sex. I'm guessing that as they got to know a guy, they may privately tell him otherwise, or may even tell him otherwise on the first date itself. But perhaps they fear that to put anything other than a hard line out there in public would make them vulnerable to sexual predators. Thing is, that can backfire. It can also make them a challenge or a conquest for those same predators they're trying to avoid.
I doubt that sex would be part of any first date, for me. But really, that would depend on how much contact there was, before the date. Are we talking only about making connections by way of dating websites? I don't have experience with that, so am just guessing at how I might approach it.
If not a website, and it's someone known in offline life, If it's a person you hang out with, how do you decide what constitutes this all important official "first date"?
But back to the site thing. If it's the first time I've been in the same room with that person, then the answer is no. I have to be comfortable, and on a first outing, when I'm not sure what impression I'm making, and maybe I'm still a bit anxious, and am unsure yet whether I want to see that person again, I just don't imagine sex being very enjoyable. If I liked the person, I want something to look forward to, for a while longer than just an hour or two! Once it's done, the mystery about that person is diminished, and some of the fun of getting to know them.
Either way though, I agree that it makes very little sense that one person wouldn't respect another, when there were two involved! Presumably, these are adults, and they made a decision. own it.
I have had sex with someone I only met that night. It happens. Do I do that normally? No not so much, but it's something that's happened.
Would I respect someone who wants to have sex on the first date. Sure, I really don't care when other people choose to have sex. I have friends who engage in one night stands frequently, and others who are waiting until marriage. I really don't care either way what they choose to do.
I'd just want someone to respect my wishes. If I go on a date with them, and make it clear I don't want sex yet, I don't want them to push for it. Same goes for me respecting them if that's their wish.
I'm not even sure why this is a thing. I disagree with Leo's assumption that it's women who want to wait, to settle first because of resources. Lots of my female friends are out for a good time and seriously, none of us are even considering settling down. Because quite honestly if we go out on our own we can bring in the resources to look after ourselves.
But anyway. I really couldn't care less when people have sex as long as they are both comfortable.
Maybe it's a generation thing, because honestly I don't see many girls my age worrying about that. If they want sex, they have it. Or cultural, as I'm in the UK.
Agreed with Holly. I've had sex with two people I met on two different nights. One of them is my current boyfriend.
I regret nothing, and I would lose no respect.
Here's the thing I'm curious about. Lets say, and Holly I'm only using you for
example purposes I swear. Lets say HOlly and I are hanging out at her flat, I
think that's the britishism. Anyway, we're watching the great british bake off,
drinking tea, talking about the queen, all that good stuff, and I feel its time
things start getting hot and heavy. I'm no longer interested in the empire, how
much we hate the French, James Bond, I'm now interested in getting Holly's
knickers off; again, britishism. Now Holly, being the pure and upstanding british
victorian virgin that she is, says no. She's not feeling it, she'd rather eat some
freedom fries; americanism. So me, I say "ok Holly, then I'm gonna call it a
night." Not because I only like Holly for her fanny, but because I don't want to
put myself in the position to try and tease, suggest, cajole, tempt, or pressure
HOlly into consenting to have sex when she's already said no. I want sex, she
doesn't, I say we meet for coffee and cake tomorrow and talk about how lyndon
trees smell of cum. Am I a bad person, or am I doing the right thing?
Well I'm sorry but the simple fact that you wanted to stop talking about how fucking awful the french are makes you a bad person. Get out.
Thanks all for your thoughts.
On the dates. Any situation is up for discussion, so it doesn’t matter how you meet the person, on, or offline.
On the dating site, the questions are supposed to be designed so that you are matched to a person that thinks much like you.
The questions are supposed to cut down the number of people, so that you are guided making your search easier.
You can answer them privately as well, but the object is to answer them honestly.
How this actually works is a toss, because people are people.
I can only see the public answers.
I would hope the answers are actually the person’s viewpoint.
As to sex on the first date, it seems many take a dim view to people that suggest it is perfectly fine even when they have reasons and no regrets as has been posted here.
Man or woman that wants sex, or allows sex on a first date aren’t respecting themselves.
This goes across generations at least in America.
I have been made to understand in other countries, people think differently about it.
On the dating site, you can post your remarks why you answered the question as you did, and many post the negative viewpoint.
If you have sex on the first date, your relationship is doomed sort of for the future. You will have a longer relationship if you wait, and that relationship will be stronger due to waiting.
I have seen this view here as well on other topics.
I personally have had sex on the first date, and after had some good and lasting relationships with the person as well as some have posted.
What makes a relationship worse as to the time limit you are sexually involved?
Cody. I think you'd be doing the right thing, though I can see how it could be misinterpreted as you basically leaving because Holly won't put out. You'd just need to explain why you're leaving, that you need to take a step back because of your raging hormones.
Wayne, thanks for posting this topic. It's something I've struggled with for quite a while, even more so since I've been attending church. However, I'm finally firm in my belief that ultimately, it's no one's business what happens between two consenting adults.
So, to answer the first question of would I have sex on the first date: it depends. It depends on many factors, but I'm certainly not among those who would flat out say no. The reason being that no one knows how they may feel, how their hormones may be raging, ETC. So honestly, I don't understand how people can say no, given that there's so much uncertainty.
To answer the second question of would I lose respect for someone after I have sex with them: no, that's ludicrous. I mean, if we've both consented to sex, there's no reason for me to disrespect them.
That being said though, I do agree with whoever it was that said there's a double standard where women are seen as slutty if they so much as discuss things openly. Even so, that doesn't bother me--if I'm not supposed to share my thoughts when sexuality comes up in a discussion, than what good am I? If I as a woman cannot contribute the same way as men can, and have my opinion be embraced as men's opinions are, then there's something wrong with this picture.
Some guys take it sex for fun. Let me share my experience.
For a long time i and my boyfriend had conversation on phone . We fixed a date to meet. On the first time we met, we had sex. The next day, he stopped responding to my call. Thus, i must say, it is hard to trust men. Some guys play on ladies.
I have to say, while I feel sympathy for that situation, I find comments like
that highly insulting. It would be like if I said that I once dated a girl, who
turned out to be a guy, so all women must be guys. That would be incredibly
narrow minded. Yeah, that situation happens, but to say that it's then difficult to
trust all people who fit in a very very wide category? that's narrow minded. You
can't distrust all men simply because one of them hurt you.
Even though I've never had sex on the first date, I still cannot fathom losing
respect for someone who has sex on the first date. I've had women, including
the one I'm married to, divulge intensely serious amounts of emotional
information on a first date. I did not for some crying-out-loud reason lose
respect for er because she shared a lot of information on the first date. I
understand there's no pressure to withhold emotions for a woman. But even if
there was, I guess I just play outside the lines enough that I still would not lose
said respect.
In order for someone to lose my respect, the only thing they must do is be a
dishonorable character: malign or abuse other people, be cruel and unkind, be a
downright dick to someone, stuff like that.
Also to add to Cody.
When an adult women enters in to a sexual relationship that doesn't continue as she wished, why is it always the man's fault?
What if the sex was bad, or he learned he just didn't like her for whatever reasons.
She has the same choices to say to him, well, that was okay yesterday, but I'm no longer interested. Thanks, it felt great.
All men, or all women can't be blamed for one persons feelings about another.
We have to take responsibility for the act.
I strongly agree, that a person that is not for sex on the first date, should not do it ever unless they are ready to accept the responsibility for their personal emotional state.
Marigold, yes, some men do play women. I've experienced this in the past, and it sucks. As others have said though, it's not fair to mistrust all men as a result. That, and what too few women recognize is that men aren't the only players. They aren't the only ones who are ever just out for sex. There are, in fact, female players out there, women who only want sex and lie to get it. You don't hear as much about them, of course, but women aren't just innocent little angels, contrary to what some women like to think.
Hi Wayners,
While not easy, you might want to try and second guess what the dating site
does with the answer to the first question. If you answer yes, will it
automatically rule out anyone who has said they wouldn't have sex on the first
date? If so, you might not want to narrow your matches that much. After all,
your view judging by the posts on this topic is not that you need sex on the first
date, just that it might happen under certain circumstances.
I flag this because some dating sites do make an assessment of whether you
are after casual sex or a more long term relationship, and some will allow you to
automatically screen out those who are just looking for casual sex, which being
willing to have sex on a first date might imply.
To comment on an earlier post, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience with a man, but I'm hear to tell you that men aren't the only players. Some women are players too, and not necessarily to a lesser degree than men, even though we hardly hear about them doing it.
I hope you think about what I and others have said to you, because it's stupid to color all man bad simply because one man, in one experience, did you in a way you didn't like. I'm insulted, and I'm not even a man.
for me. I would never have sex on my first date. but at the same time, so many of my long distance relationships have gone on for more than a month or up to a year before I have met the person in rl. I definitely consider the long hours I spent chatting on skype as dates. Johan and I were fully ready to go to bed together after meeting at the airport. we knew that's what we wanted, and had considered ourselves a couple for more than a month, so I was fine with that.
then again, I am demisexual, so I will admit my reaction might be different.
I thought about doing that Ed, and decided it wasn't going to work.
Maybe it is better to get fewer like minded matches then declines after you've had a few conversations.
It offers a place to explain your answers. On the more sensitive questions, I explain.
I do not mean to say that all men are same.
The present man the i have married is not like the previous man.
Same like before, we had long conversation on phone. Then we fixed a date to meet. After we had sex, we married and now happily living.
I've never been on a dating site. But I think Ed must be right on this one. If someone hired me to help write the back end of such a site -- yours truly not being terribly good at web UI front end stuff -- then I would definitely flag characteristics like this ... I don't mean "flag" the way kids use that term on Tweeter now. But merely as a way to create the types of relationship pathways {programmatically speaking} that would result in customer success.
It's a byproduct of the society we currently live in.
How many men are in a committed relationship, have not cheated. But if they don't react with the proper offended / horrified reaction at another's filanderous ways, are likely to have their own character challenged. This returns to the trump card I referred to earlier. We who have no such card cannot possibly understand how desperate those who have it would go to defend it.
As to the dating site, I'm not convinced the match making is working.
I still get matches that aren't same.
It does rate them, or give a percentage as to how well you match though.
It is interesting only.
Personally I feel that as long as both parties are willing it doesn't matter.
I'm curious, what site are we talking about here?
I'd totally have sex on the first date if we clicked and she felt the same way. Likewise, I'd also respect if we had sex and it just didn't work out in the morning and we part ways.
If you mean side as in the man or women, mostly it is women that feel they won’t be respected after if they permit to sex on the first date.
I have not read, or heard of many women asking for, or seeking sex on the first date, unless sex is what they are seeking, not the guy, if I’m making sense.
They go to a bar, or source to find someone to have sex with, not someone they want to date.
In that case, it is mutually understood we are here to have sex, after doesn’t matter.
I don’t think women are yet the aggressors in picking a man they like, then telling him they want sex from him in a regular dating setting.
Any here that are, correct me if I’m wrong.
Wayne, I can definitely be aggressive in a setting where I like someone and feel a sexual connection with the person. As you said, this isn't the norm, but it does exist. And quite frankly, I wish more women were this way.
The reason I say I have to like someone, is cause I have to have some level of connection with them before I am interested in them sexually.
I should add.
I've never heard a guy complaining he wasn't respected after giving up sex on the first date.
If we have some guys here that feel that way, post.
Yes Chelsea. I personally don't see it as a respect issue, nor a bad thing.
My own particular version of "sex on the first date" usually goes more like: met somewhere, got really drunk/messed up, ended up going home somewhere and screwing. It's ultimately been a little disappointing because it seldom leads to better things afterwards and inevitably one feels kind of weird about it too. Ten years ago I might have talked differently but at this point I think I'm pretty over it. And if it's a matter of respect: if people act so much more provocatively when not sober, that is a bit of a problem. It's the sort of thing that results generally in un-returned phone calls later.
On a real date, this usually doesn't happen, to me at least, and I prefer it this way. It's good to know a person, to find out what excites them, what sort of person they really are. Even though I think I miss some chances this way, tthese days I have to tell myself not to rush things. I still want sex but at this particular point in my life I think a meaningful bond of some kind is more important to me.
But then again, I have never heard men being called sluts or whores after having sex on the first date either. So perhaps it has more to do with the way men and the rest of society preceive women who have sex on the first date rather than how women actually feel about it. Their are a lot of men out there who do not have much respect for women in general, and a lot of men who loos respect, or see women differently after they have sex with someone. However, I am not saying every man is this way though. But I cannot help but wonder if being called sluts and whores has something to do with the way women feel a loss of respect after having sex too soon with a man. Perhaps if men had more respect for women then perhaps women would have more respect for themselves.
You and chelsea might need to meet more women Wayne. I know lots of girls
who are willing to just have sex. I probably know more who are than who aren't
if I think about it, and the ones I know who aren't are in committed
relationships. Girls who just like to have sex aren't hard to find.
I know about that, but this has to do with respect.
On that dating site, the women say they would not have respect for a partner if they had sex with them on the first date.
So, I guess sex for sex is fine, but sex and respect come under a different heading.
It was just something I found interesting.
Ok, boys, line up. I'll have sex with each one of you and let's see how many of you respect me after.
*I hereby affirm I've never met any of you. Okay, I actually met one board member but that was many years before I found this website and besides he is married. No married guys in the line, thank you very much.
The above post is, of course, sarcasm. Not having sex with any of you. My loss, no doubt.
Just might be.
You might find that guy you want to marry. hahaha.
Crazy Cat is right. But a man is often called a horn dog or inconsiderate or not knowing what she really wants, for having sex on the first date. Or at least this was how it was in my youth.
On a slightly different note, virginity is largely a pseudo legal fiction anyhow. At least in terms of its falue. It's a vestigial leftover from pre-birth-control systems where sex was directly linked to whose resources are to be given to whom. Then again, we have a lot of said vestigial leftovers.